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Josh (josh-milburn.com & @JoshLMilburn & @aveganphilosopher) is a moral & political philosopher with research interests in animal ethics, the philosophy of food, liberal & libertarian political theory & applied ethics. He is a British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow in the Dept of Politics & International Relations at the University of Sheffield. Josh is the author of many articles and books, including “Just Fodder” on the ethics of feeding non-human animals and (to be published in 2023) “Food, Justice, and Animals: Feeding the World Respectfully“. Josh co-hosts the Knowing Animals podcast.

In these Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?” Sentientism is “evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” The audio is also on our Podcast – subscribe here on Apple​​​​ & on all the other platforms here​​​​​​.

We discuss:

• Taking an interdisciplinary approach to academia & activism
• Encountering various religious traditions as a child
• Thinking “I don’t believe that” at 8 years old re: Noah’s ark
• Being a “militant atheist” as a teenager
• Studying religions to undergrad level
• What is real & what we can know to be real
• There is a world out there but we don’t know all about it
• Science & naturalism
• Dogma vs open-mindedness & humility
• Moral realism & different kinds of claim/evidence
• The dangers of moral relativism & nihilism
• Grounding morality in a naturalistic understanding of sentient beings & sentience. “I don’t suffering & I don’t think you do either”
• Pluralism
• Religious studies didn’t cover philosophy
• Being very resistant to vegetarianism. A fundamental challenge
• Reading Peter Singer at 17 while considering studying philosophy
• “Philosophers are often not the best activists”
• Philosophical arguments don’t have the same impact on everyone
• Some people “get it” but still don’t change. Others just don’t get it
• “Imagine animals had rights – how would we feed the world?… It would’t be a vegan food system.” Clean/cultivated meats & milks
• “Can we get to an ethical food system without people having to change their practices at all?”
• Animals where it’s less certain whether they are sentient. Invertebrates, oysters, jellyfish, insects, sponges
• Deciding how to act in the face of uncertainty
• “It’s got to be a high bar to say ‘you cannot do that thing that is central to your life'” but “Sentient animals have rights” and that’s enough to tell pig farmers to stop
• Edge cases re: veganism & animal ethics
• Liberalism & state coercion. Only using coercion when injustice is clear
• Having compassion for human sentients too, even those doing harm
• #JustTransition
• The history of the term “Sentientism”. Rodman, Richard Ryder, Peter Singer
• It’s hard not to be consequentialist in its broadest sense
• Deontological rules do have to pay attention to what happens
• Gary Francione’s abolitionism
• Sue Donaldson & Will Kymlicka’s Zoopolis
• Sentientism as a pluralistic philosophy
• “Animal activists don’t have to be on the political left”
• Sentientism rules out intra-human discriminations. Racism/homophobia etc. don’t belong
• Robert Nozick was a vegetarian & a libertarian
• Academics can find new ways of thinking about human-animal relations
• Activists need to meet people where they are
• Not every argument we have is about a perfect end-state
• Sometimes we have to work within existing systems
• How can liberalism be more friendly towards non-human animals
• Any political system will work better if more people are sentientist
• “Being a sentientist gives us more in common than sharing politics”
• The biggest political & ethical issue is what we’re doing to other animals
• Agreeing on the most fundamental issues is most important. Finding common ground
• Most people with supernatural worldviews use naturalism most of the time
• Most of those who consume animal products see animal suffering as negative
• “Change is coming because we have to change” re: animals, zoonosis, anti-microbial resistance, topsoil erosion, climate change
• Do the biggest problems have the most obvious solutions? But “humans are weird”
• Risks of motivated reasoning & non-scientific thinking in the vegan movement. “Wooganism”
• Veganism has many powerful positive effects but isn’t a perfect panacea
• Humans can respond well when the crisis is imminent and severe enough
• The generally positive community responses to COVID-19 might give us hope
• “Compassion isn’t enough” – we need naturalism too
• “Stamping out the risk of embracing nonsense in the vegan community”
• “If you want to collect crystals or enjoy tarot cards that’s fine – but…”

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at sentientism.info​​​​​​​​​​​​. Join Josh on our “I’m a Sentientist wall” using this simple form​.

​Everyone interested, Sentientist or not, is welcome to join our groups. The largest so far is here on Facebook​.

Thanks to Graham for the post-prod. Follow him @cgbessellieu.